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 Right - join Part A to Part B etc, etc, etc (currently 15,071 views) |
| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 9th, 2022, 09:46:52 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 751
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Craig, All,
Looking at the circuit diagram I think I can 'extract' the info for only a second fan. But am I correct in thinking when comparing your diagram with what I've done, the relay pin 85 and 86 polarity is swapped around?
That is - where I have a +ve feed, you've got a earth?
Hope that makes sense.
Cheers. |
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Reply: 585 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 9th, 2022, 10:31:23 |
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Maximum Member2
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Reply: 586 - 599 |
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| Craig Smith |
| Posted on: July 11th, 2022, 09:19:53 |
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Big Member
Location: Bury
Posts: 257
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Quoted from Graham Bichard, posted July 9th, 2022, 09:46:52 at here |
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Craig, All,
But am I correct in thinking when comparing your diagram with what I've done, the relay pin 85 and 86 polarity is swapped around?
That is - where I have a +ve feed, you've got a earth?
Hope that makes sense.
Cheers.
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Ordinarily the way that you wire pins 85 & 86 would make no difference to its operation (though 85 is commonly referenced as "coil ground"). However, the relay that you have chosen has an internal diode across pins 85 & 86, and therefore would have to be wired as per my diagram with 85 going to earth. Alternatively you could go for a relay without a diode: CBS part number 140201 and wire it as per your diagram.
All that you are doing with 85 & 86 is energising a coil, and it makes no difference which way the current flows with a non diode fitted unit.
Other items all look fine. |
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Reply: 587 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 16th, 2022, 14:04:46 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 751
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Thanks Craig. I didn't realise I'd selected a relay with a diode - no need for that I think. So I'll look to keep it simple (of course) and get the bits ordered.
Cheers. |
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Reply: 588 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 23rd, 2022, 14:47:01 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 751
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Received through the post this week:
Relay & holder, plenty of black & red 17.5Amp cable (I did think about trying to match the MPi loom wire colours, but I'll be marking these cables up with a tag so this was an easier option), plenty of spare connectors.
I purchased the maxi fuse size inline fuse holder as it was only a few quid - I haven't as yet been able to locate a regular size blade fuse inline holder rated at 15A as yet, but will keep looking (until such time as I do the wiring) as it will be more convenient only carrying one size (not rating) of spare fuse.
I bought the switch from RS (along with some cable covering to try and make it look like a 'proper job')- I think it'll be okay (for IVA), the edge profile being similar to the other rectangular rocker switches, but I might hide it away under the dash for the test and mount it correctly on the dash afterwards.
Re-reading Mr Dickens book, he mentions he prefers not to wire the fan through the ignition (albeit he controls the fan with a temperature switch). I'm tempted - in the name of simplicity in my case, to revisit whether I wire the fan directly i.e. leave out the ignition switch.
Also received the mounting feet for the second fan, which I'd forgotten to order with the fan! |
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Reply: 589 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: July 23rd, 2022, 15:41:18 |
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Maximum Member2
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Okay - so after a bit of reassurance here please.
This is a photo of my starter motor area, in particular the red +ve connection. (Not the clearest of photo's I'm afraid)
Am I correct in thinking it is from here that I take the power to connect to the Relay (connection '30')?
Thank you. |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: January 11th, 2023, 15:46:45 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 751
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Happy New Year All (if it's not too late to say this!). Anyway, hopefully here's to progressing in 2023!
I haven't posted on here for a while, and have a bit of a rhetorical question.
I've done a little bit of work on the MM including fitting a second fan, but after Christmas I printed off the paperwork to resubmit for another IVA - I'll not be submitting this for a couple of months, but looking up the previous submission I realise this was done back in 2018!
Now I think I might still have an issue with emissions - running the car up to warm it through, the exhaust pipe tip is still very dirty afterwards suggesting to me that the mixture is still too rich.
Since having the car mapped I've changed the lambda sensor, plugs etc. Don't know if any of this has changed things.
Now the thought I have is I intend to submit the car as is, expecting one of the items to be picked up to be the emissions. But doing this will give me a list of items to address.
But looking back over my engine build, one of the things that needs to be considered is my fitting of 1.5 roller rockers along with a cam - the extra lift given does seem to adversely affect the emissions by conventional thinking.
But if the car does fail emissions, do we think it'll be best to revert to standard (around 1.3) rockers before getting the car remapped, and accept a little less power?
I would ask the same question of RS Tuning of course, but thought I'd start the discussion on here, to get peoples thoughts.
Also - can't remember if its possible to change the rockers without the need to change the head gasket (the rocker arm retaining bolts I think, are also head retaining bolts)?
Cheers All. |
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Reply: 591 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: February 25th, 2023, 13:44:31 |
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Maximum Member2
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I posted some of these pics on facebook (I'm not a big user of that) but thought I'd expand a little on here:
The problem looked to be with the lambda sensor, along with the fact that the car isn't driven as such - I don't start the car too often (I don't want to get too much condensation in the engine, but do get the engine thoroughly up to temperature when I do), and as I've learned the lambda doesn't work until there's some temperature in the engine. So the lamda wasn't seeing any results, was telling the ecu to give more fuel which fouled the plugs, stopping the mixture igniting, so the lambda wasn't getting any results so got the ecu to add more fuel, which fouled the plugs etc. etc.
In order to get the car running, the plugs were cleaned, the lambda sensor disabled (in the software), and the mixture set up as best as possible, using the exhaust probe.
So hopefully this will allow the car to pass the IVA emissions (as RS Tuning said, this isn't guaranteed, but at least gives it a chance). Long term, a wideband lambda sensor needs to be fitted (a separate power supply/connection to the ecu will be required, not using the MPI loom as the Specialist Component kit currently does.
More immediately, I need to fit new spark plugs, I noticed the brake fluid needs changing (judging by the colour. It is probably 6 or 7 years old), the coolant is looking manky, and I'll look to grease the suspension and probably change the oil before IVA. So I've updated the 'to do' board accordingly:
The car did get dirty on the trailer on the way down - I'll look forward to cleaning this when the weathers better, but how do people seal the edges of the headlight covers:
ETA Regarding the coolant, I changed the coolant a couple of years ago when it was apparent it was beyond its best, including removing the header tank and cleaning it out (it was coated inside). It's like that again - any ideas as to why?
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Last modified February 25th, 2023, 13:50:16 by Graham Bichard |
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Reply: 592 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: June 9th, 2023, 15:19:44 |
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Maximum Member2
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Thought it might be easier putting an update in this forum keeping the thread useful hopefully, for anyone else going through this (But don't - just rebuild an already registered car  ), and also hopefully for people to provide answers to my questions!
So my car failed its' second IVA this morning - it was a different tester, albeit this guy equally as nice and helpful as the last time. But understandably I suppose, he concentrates on slightly different things.
This is what the car failed on this time:
1. Seat belt upper and lower mountings.
2. Seat belt stalk mounting.
3. Emissions.
4. Heat shield required above exhaust silencer.
5. Battery positive terminal, cover required.
6. Battery box not secure enough.
7. Battery moves/not secure within battery box.
8. Earth terminal block in passenger footwell require covering.
9. Chafing protection required on brake/fuel pipes where they are contained within P-clips.
10. Brake pipe required better securing where it traverses across rear subframe (vibration/chafing risk).
11. Covers required on fuel pump +ve/-ve terminals.
12. Speedo working intermittently and reading incorrectly.
13. Right at the very end of the test (tester driving around the block) the rear view mirror fell off!
Dealing with each of these in turn:
1. Seat belt upper and lower mounts. The tester wanted to know that the upper and lower seat belt mounting points (one by you ear, one by you hip on the sill) were connected by metal.
This could've been a potential show stopper to getting the car IVA'd at all - I knew there was a metal insert at the upper/lower position, but couldn't state there was anything joining them. Luckily I've already received confirmation photos from Marcos Heritage (thank you Nick Kleiff!) of a shell in build which shows where this joining metal gets laminated into the shell. Phew....
2. I've used the correct seat belt stalk mounting spreader plates (for use on the transmission tunnel) to fit the stalks, but the tester stated that the spreader plate should be 4" by 4". I discussed making up a shaped plate, fitted to the transmission tunnel that met the area requirements, to which the existing mounting plate and bolt will be fitted over/through. (This needs to be steel, not ali, therefore I'd probably remove it after testing to prevent it just rotting away!
3. Emissions. Hmm... The car passes the emissions test for a pre 31/07/92 engine car - it fails the emissions test for a post 01/08/92 car.
Now I've built the car up as an MPI replica (MPI Rover minis 96-00), but would need to prove the engine was pre-31/07/92 to get the pass as is. I intend to get the car set up again on the rolling road (with a wide band lambda set up installed) but was hoping to get the car registered, running it in for 1k miles or so before going to this expense. I might not have any choice though.
I have it in my mind that the Mini had an MoT emissions exemption around this time (1992) because the A-series wasn't able to pass the newly introduced (at the time) emission standards. If I can find evidence of that it may help.
Does anyone know of this? Also if there is a record anywhere of engine numbers/years?
4. Heat shield - this is a new one! I moved the exhaust exit from LHS to RHS. But there are fuel lines running around this area (feed/return for the fuel injection system) one of which runs above the exhaust silence. Tester requires a shield to be fitted between the line/silencer in case the line ruptures in a rear end crash (line ruptured leaking onto the exhaust).
5. Battery terminal requires a cap/cover (battery is inside a battery box with lid!).
6. Battery box wobbles. I thought this might be an easy fix using more bolts but now realise the two bolts securing this currently are located above the tank - don't want to be drilling more holes around there. Perhaps some kind of wedges underneath will work.
7. Battery wobbles within the box. The battery size is matched with the box - go figure! Rubber wedged in again I think.
8. All earths are gathered into a multi block in the passenger footwell with one cable going through the bulkhead. This needs to be covered (silicon bath sealant suggested) to prevent it being possibly damaged by feet. (This wasn't a problem last time)
9. Rubber hose slit length wise and wrapped around, or possible spiral wrap should sort this. (This wasn't a problem last time)
10. The Austin/Morris/BL/Rover solution isn't good enough - more P-clips required. (This wasn't a problem last time)
11. Easy fix. (This wasn't a problem last time)
12. Speedo was working (up to 55mph) on the way to test centre, then stopped, started again on the way home etc. I think the problem is the cable inner is too short, so will get a longer inner made up.
More importantly, when it was working the speedo was reading too high (an indicated 35mph recorded an actual 37mph). This means I will definitely require to look at the speedo drive gears.
I'm sure I fitted the matched pair for the 2.7FD that I have fitted (I was going to go with a 2.9FD and had the speedo drive gears for that - if I'd fitted these instead would this explain the under-reading?) Anyone know where I can get a matched pair of speedo drive gears for a 2.7FD from?
13. Easy fix
So there we have it! I'm going to put the car on ramps/axle stands and make a slow start at the easier bits this weekend hopefully.
A few other thoughts.
The car doesn't like starting when its hot.
Its quite hard work on the car maintaining higher revs (c2500rpm) for extended periods with no forward air flow. The car never went into the red, but did blow coolant from the header tank cap AFTER I turned the engine off. This didn't count as overheating (no tests being carried out at this point). After letting it cool down I topped up the coolant and while it was above the middle line on the gauge it never went much higher. I do suspect the battery is on its way out - it is a gel battery approx. 10 years old and even though it is kept on a trickle charger is I think, past its best.
I ended up doing two trips to/from the test centre. As soon as I got home I received a call from the tester - he'd forgotten a few measurements, could I take the car back to the test centre? Of course I could! Even took the slightly longer way home the second time (only an extra 3 or 4 miles) but the car must have the thick end of 100 miles on it now! (If only the speedo worked I'd know :/ )
The seats are mounted flat to the floor - this is uncomfortable, they need to be reclined. (This will be done with spacers AFTER passing IVA) This will also give slightly more headroom.
The ride is very stiff, doesn't like our broken road surfaces (or more accurately I don't!).
The car cruises well at around the 70mph mark (dual carriageway speed) and is an okay ride on a decent road surface.
In summary, the seat belt mounts might not be the show stopper I feared. Getting to the bottom of the emissions might/will be more expense in the shorter term. But most of the things hopefully won't be too problematic (he says with fingers crossed).
ETA When taking the long way home I passed an on coming Lamborghini Huracan drop top. It was quite funny watching the sunglasses wearing driver straining his neck to look at the little orange frog like car! Perhaps I should've asked him if he wanted to swap? |
Last modified June 9th, 2023, 15:43:26 by Graham Bichard |
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| Ian_Richardson |
| Posted on: June 9th, 2023, 16:23:05 |
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Baby Member
Location: Belford, Northumberland
Posts: 23
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| Hard luck Graham, I thought they just had to test the fails from last time... obviously not though. as you say most of them things are easy fixes... on a positive.. exhaust passed though. as i mentioned on FB you could book a track day and go round and round just putting some miles on it, but you would need to get it there though! |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: June 9th, 2023, 17:40:17 |
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Big Member
Location: Southampton
Posts: 427
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I'm gutted for you but most are relatively easy fix. Could you lift the battery box and put it down on pu sealant once set this will glue the box in place and will never move. As for the various covers I'd make them out of plastic or fibreglass, silicone is a bodge in my opinion.
Mike |
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Reply: 595 - 599 |
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| stevecrook |
| Posted on: June 9th, 2023, 20:51:03 |
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Baby Member
Location: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire
Posts: 11
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Graham,
Sorry it failed IVA but it looks like the list is not too onerous. Just wanted to say your updates here have been really useful for my MK6 build which I am now back engaged with after taking a break to do another Mini restoration. I will post a full update on my build soon.
I mounted and secured my battery box and lid on a platform within the LH companion bin so that it cannot move.
I had put a heat shield above my exhaust from the carb / manifold but stopped it before the silencer so looks like I will need to extend it now to cover the silencer!
I opted for harnesses rather seat belts as I was concerned about a comment on one of your posts that the top seat belt mount could rip out the metal inserts under extreme load in a crash. I have used 4 inch square steel spreader plates to secure the harness mounts.
I also have the issue of how do you test the Speedo calibration so will consider the track day or MOT trip suggestions.
I had covered the chafing protection for Fuel/Brake pipes requirement with rubber lined P-clips but I will review the rear subframe brake line fixings given that point raised.
On Emissions I am hoping to only have to pass the basic visual test required for pre 1st August 1975 engines as my block was from 1974 and 12G295 cylinder head from the 1960s !
I was hoping to get to IVA soon as the only build jobs left on mine are the door windows & locks, but now have a low oil pressure issue so will need the engine out to investigate ! |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: June 10th, 2023, 11:58:00 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 751
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Car backed up on the ramps to start the works. Just waiting for the exhaust fumes to clear.
I'm starting with the items at the rear - I think I can tick off more items, more quickly while researching and trying to locate speedo drives and the like.
Steve - glad the thread might have helped, and good luck when you do present the car for test. All joking aside the IVA will help to ensure the (home built lets remember) car is safe! It's still a PITA though!
The exhaust shield over the silencer might just be peculiar to my car and how I've routed the fuel lines. What type of shielding have you used?
Regarding the engine emissions, you'll need to prove the age of the engine. If your engine still has the engine number tag this might be all you need.
ETA I checked the oil level before starting it up this morning to find it on the low mark. So approx. 100 miles of driving, one session on the rolling road, and a few sessions of static high revs have needed 0.5 litre top up. I'd have liked to have run the engine in differently, but hey-ho. I'll just need to keep an eye on this I guess.
Edited again - Steve, if you think it'll be useful PM me your email address and I can send you the photos of the metalwork laminated into the B pillar, sent to me by Marcos Heritage. I know you're using harnesses but they might come in handy. |
Last modified June 10th, 2023, 12:06:01 by Graham Bichard |
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| mike brown |
| Posted on: June 10th, 2023, 17:41:20 |
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Big Member
Location: Southampton
Posts: 427
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I just took the log book for the donor of the engine. That was enough for mine.
Mike |
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Reply: 598 - 599 |
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| Graham Bichard |
| Posted on: June 11th, 2023, 07:51:08 |
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Maximum Member2
Posts: 751
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Mike, unfortunately I don't have that, buying the engine as a stand alone item via eBay. I'm researching things currently, especially trying to find the reference whereby Rover had a temporary exemption from the MoT emissions for the mini/metro in 1992.
Some good news - I've received an email from the tester stating that the photos forwarded from Marcos Heritage are sufficient to satisfy the seat belt mounting question! That's a big relief!!! |
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Mini Marcos Forum > General Boards > Mini Marcos > Right - join Part A to Part B etc, etc, etc
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